Ok, do you need a lesson in MMA. First off, Tim Silvia IS one of the best fighters in all of MMA. Look at his record (better than just everyone in the sport). Look at his competition, a who's who of heavyweight Mixed martial artists: He defeated the likes of Ricco Rodriguez, Andrei Arlovski, Ben Rothwell, Cabage, Assuerio Silva, Jeff Monson, Brandon Vera, Jason Lambert etc and was UFC champ..how many times? and you have the nerve to say he's not at least one of the best? Get a clue and know your mma history. Tim looks somewhat awkward because of his size, however he has one of the best take-down defenses in the HW division, has great stand up, a lot of power, decent on the ground and great cardio, a testament to his professionalism. He is no doubt one of the best. As for Randy, the guy beat some of the best heavies and light heavies in the game past and present. What planet are you living on?

Tim Sylvia is not one of the best fighters right now (although he looked much better in his last fight) and certainly wasn't when Couture took him down. The HW division in the UFC at that time was weak.

Sylvia decent on the ground? Nevermind, I won't even go into that. Clearly, you are a big Sylvia fan. How about Sylvia's claim that he was injured in the days before the Couture fight? Shouldn't you be trumping that cause from the top of the mountaintops?

If Sylvia was hurt (I don't know how much I buy into this, despite what Sylvia/Matt Hughes said) that just helps my argument here.

As for Randy- I'm not saying his career is overrated. I'm saying Couture as a fighter right now is overrated. You have done nothing to dispute that.

For a huge guy he does not have a bad ground game. I said he was decent, not great. He out grappled Monson, one of the best on the ground in the world. Couture had him on the mat the whole fight and couldn't finish him. Mir broke his arm but couldn't keep him down. If your "educated" opinion is he's not on of the best heavy's out there, name me 10 better, no name me five better. I'm not a huge time fan, I'm a fan of any fighter with skill who gives it his all, comes in shape every time. Weather he was hurt or not is a non issue as far as the Randy fight goes, he should have kept his trap shut and not said a word, he lost fair and square. As for Randy, setting aside his other accomplishments against elite fighters he last, not only beat, but dominated a man 12 years younger, a lot bigger and stronger who was thought to be the next big thing. He did the same to Tim, the champ at the time. I can't understand what criteria you use to judge these two. They are both two of the best ever, you can debate it but you'd be wrong. Everyone loses, Chuck looked pathetic in two of his last three fights, Henderson lost his last two, are these guys not still not two of the best? For the record, Randy has been the underdog 12 times, wining 11 of those fights. If Fedor gets passed Tim (a big if) the Randy fight will have to be made, everyone will be calling for it once again and my money's going on Randy. Now, if Tim does beat Fedor will you give him the credit he deserves or take the low road and blame Fedor for losing instead?

One thing you forget to mention is that Couture beat Gabriel Gonzaga in his following fight. Gonzaga dominated one of the best pure strikers in the world in Mirko Cro Cop to gain that title shot. You are linking the age of Randy Couture to being overrated. Technically Couture is still at the top of his game. Similiar to Chuck Liddell you can not shoot on him and he proved that his striking is still prominent in his fight with Gonzaga. Couture is still considered a top pound for pound fighter because he has very few flaws, and simply cant be dominated.

I was recently just thinking the same thing "Randy Couture is overrated". But I have different reasons. I don't like when people say someone is overrated because they haven't fought in a while. That's like saying that lion hasn't killed anything recently lets go over there and poke him in the eye.

The reason I was thinking recently that Couture is overrated was because I couldn't remember that many "great" fighters that he has beat. I mean he beat chuck liddel once then went on to lose twice to Mr. Liddel. He even lost to Josh Barnett very early on. Then I remembered why he was the greatest next to Fedor. 1. His comeback. He came back with gold and iron armour. He just seems like a giant now when he's fighting and taking out the younger powerhouse that is Gonzaga really cemented his newly found indestructible nature. 2. His style of fighting-the way he seems to own people in the clinch is unlike anyone i've seen. most people would rather strike or go for a takedown and grapple/GnP. His expertise in this style gives way to the belief that maybe he could stand a chance against Fedor.

In Conclusion. Couture is slightly overrated but do you really think Liddel has a chance against Fedor? Fedor would walk through liddel. Liddel basically has to find the perfect setup to KO which only works on more timid fighters that come out to box instead of Brawl.

Mark buddy, you seriously think Fedor is going to lose to a tree that stands there and punches? Fedor is going to chop that tree down so fast he's going to get disqualified for having a concealed weapon.

Ed- I didn't say he wasn't a top 10 heavyweight but that he shouldnt be in the top 10 pound-for-pound. He beat Sylvia who is decent but not great and certainly not "the next big thing" and then beat a mediocre fighter in Gonzaga. And that's enough to make him one of the top fighters around, at his age? Please.

Anachron5- I agree. My point was that we overreacted when Couture racked up a couple quick wins against less-than-stellar competition.

I'm not betting on Sylvia to take down Fedor but I wouldn't be shocked, either. It's tough to stay sharp when you haven't fought anyone in awhile. He hasn't been tested in years. He used to be the unanimous top dog in the sport. He's not anymore. I think Sylvia could take him by surprise. Certainly a closer fight than I think it would've been two years ago.

I didn't forget to mention it, I just don't think it's that big of a win for Couture. Gonzaga got lucky in the Cro Cop fight. I think everyone would now agree that the Cro Cop the UFC got was not the Cro Cop that fought in PRIDE.

I agree that he's sound technically but I think he retired (again) at the perfect time. Two wins and not against competition worth the praise immediately heaped on him.

One thing you forget to mention is that Couture beat Gabriel Gonzaga in his following fight. Gonzaga dominated one of the best pure strikers in the world in Mirko Cro Cop to gain that title shot. You are linking the age of Randy Couture to being overrated. Technically Couture is still at the top of his game. Similiar to Chuck Liddell you can not shoot on him and he proved that his striking is still prominent in his fight with Gonzaga. Couture is still considered a top pound for pound fighter because he has very few flaws, and simply cant be dominated.

Yeah! Who has Couture beat? Well... other than:

Vitor Belfort
Chuck Liddell
Tim Sylvia
Pedro Rizzo
Jeremy Horne
Tito Ortiz
Gabriel Gonzaga

Try again. Because this article is nothing but failure.

Do we really need a Rampage/Wanderlei III? I think so. But if Wanderlei wins, then I dont want to see a Rampage/Wanderlei IV, especially when people dont want to see a Nog/Herring IV. Fedor would completely dominate Randy anywhere that match would go. Sylvia is not a top fighter, yes he has defeated very skilled fighters, but when you hold a person up against a cage for 3 to 5 rounds, then in all honesty, does that make you a top fighter? Sylvia's ground game sucks also.

Prophetable,

Congrats on completely missing the point. He's had a fine career, but he's overrated right now. Larry Bird, one of the greatest basketball players of all time.

Currently...not one of the greatest basketball players of all time.

Your experience in MMA is laughable. If you have watched PRIDE, most of the fights you think would be more interesting have already happened and a couple have already happened in the UFC, not to shoot down your already sinking balloon. As for the intelligent rankings dropping couture off of the top 10, that is also very laughable because most of the MMA world (like 99%) gets their rankings from MMWEEKLY. Couture happens to be #3 on there...wonder why? get a clue. To say the win over big tim threw him back into the lime light is a moronic statement because prior to the sylvia fight couture was doing commentary and if i remember right, he was also doing a few after fight interviews.....so the audience is constantly hearing couture and seeing him interview after fights, all EYES and EARS are on him. What about Xtreme Couture CLOTHING LINE...how many athletes have SUCCESSFUL clothing lines with a name like AFFLICTION behind it? Not to mention couture will fight ANY style fighter where as most fighters want to get matched up with someone they think they can beat (hence chuck's fights prior to rampage) he fought his way to the top the hard way...he didnt get fights "given" to him. You do Sports Talk Radio....does that mean your over-hyped and you shouldnt be qualified to write MMA articles since people can only HEAR you? Or the fact that you have been watching MMA for 1/10th the time i have? probably. When someone makes a good point and you have no rebuttal you simply say "you missed the point" no....we all got the point, your knowledge of MMA is VERY VERY limited and embarrassing to the rest of the MMA world.

It is painfully clear that as a judge of talent in the MMA sport, you don't have a clue to what you are talking about. You might want to try blogging about something you know.

Dbag...so, because two people fight each other once (or twice in some cases)...it wouldn't be interesting to see them fight again???? You really wouldn't want to see Rampge v Wanderlei, now that Jackson is a champ and Silva has defeated him several times in PRIDE? Or Silva v Liddell again, after their classic fight?

Did you also have a problem with the NBA finals this year because "the Lakers and Celtics have played each other before"....

And no, 99% of people don't get their rankings from MMA weekly...a lot get rankings from places like Yahoo, which has a wide pool of experts.

Also, your argument about Couture's commentary makes no sense. Randy's win over Sylvia threw him into the limelight as a premier fighter again. Now, what you're saying is that because he interviews people...that means he's a good fighter? Does that mean Joe Rogan should be included among the best pound-for-pound fighters as well?

My radio has nothing to do with my writing, my writing background does. And, Randy's clothing line means NOTHING for him as a fighter. Him selling t-shirts won't help him in the ring tomorrow.

I'm not arguing he's had a great career but he's simply not a top-5 fighter anymore. That's what I'm arguing. So when you bring up things like his t-shirt line and color commentary skills, yes, you are missing the point.

Actually, let's take this to email, rather than take away from the rest of the discussion here. No sense turning it into a flame-war. My email address is on the side, drop me a line.

David,

This isn't even meant as a "radical" post or anything like that. It's actually a stance a number of people agree with. It's not like I'm on an island with this...

"And no, 99% of people don't get their rankings from MMA weekly...a lot get rankings from places like Yahoo, which has a wide pool of experts."

Meltzer is great, Iole is a hack when it comes to MMA. Have you noticed that Yahoo takes half of their articles from MMAWEEKLY??? Yeah there is a box full of MMAWEEKLY links, Yahoo loves MMAWEEKLY's and are a partner with them, not to mention Yahoo has Randy in the top ten right now P4P, MMAweekly has him at 3 in HW's and has the two guys Randy beat in the last 14 months both in the TopTen, no others listed on the Top ten have done that my friend. You site Yahoo as a great source and they have had an MMA section for how long?? They bought some credibility with Meltzer but other than that nothing different from any other site

You did a good job of bringing up a subject that is easy to argue for both sides, sure he is 16-8 but folks remeber when you win the big ones. To UFC fans Gabe and Tim were big wins, what other HW's have bigger wins in the last year, name another HW with two top ten victories please, within the last year or I'm sorry 14 months.

fail!
1.dana talk
2.attempt to get attention
3.try some other profession.
4.?
5.PROFIT>

how much dana pays you.
go write on figure skating douche.
you fail miserably!!!!!!!

Divac- you make some good points (I agree on Iole). But, I think Josh Gross from SI is very good. I also think Pramit is very good as well. There's some talented people among that pool and even they agree Couture is no longer a top 5 #-4-# as many fans will argue.

I don't agree that he should even be in the top 10, but I will make that concession.

Just because they haven't been in the MMA game for very long doesn't mean they don't do some things well. That group of voters does a lot of MMA reporting and while they do use MMA weekly pieces, they dont use MMA rankings (exclusively).

To UFC fans those may be two big wins but I will not accept Gonzaga as a top 10 heavyweight. And, if Sylvia was hurt (at all) during that fight, then it casts an even greater shadow on it.

He's a great figher, a hall of fame fighter, but if he was going to take on the top heavyweights in the sport right now...he wouldn't come out on top. In fact, there are a number of LHW fighters who I think would beat him as well. Hence, my argument that he is no longer one of the top pound-for-pound fighters right now.

Mark, I was referring to Gonzaga and not Tim as being touted as the next big thing after his destruction of Crocop. Why you called that lucky though is beyond me. In any event it seems, and others here have noticed, that you have no basis for your opinions. We measure the greatness of athletes on the quality of their competition and Randy and Tim have faced and conquered some of the best out there. Both captured titles numerous times as well. Tims last performance against one of the best was dominant until it went to the ground. Hey, he got caught and tapped, it happens to even the best of the best ,Anderson Silva, ring a bell?

You said LIME LIGHT......wow, why dont you re read what YOU wrote? Is dana white in the lime light? yes....why? hes not a fighter......basically you contradict what you write in order to cover yourself from looking foolish. yahoo sports is the most intelligent for rankings? how long have they did MMA rankings? my guess is that its not anywhere close to how long mmaweekly has done them. Most of the MMA world is sick of rematches after tito destroyed ken 3 times in a row....who wants to see the same guys fight each other once a year?.....i'll tell you who.....the new mainstream fans that JUST started watching mma .....the people that have been watching this for nearly 10 years dont want to see that.

The thing that is KILLING this sport is the media. A lot of people only want to see the fighters that are covered by major magazines and major television networks fight. Even if they arent the best fighters, the mainstream fans still want to see them fight.

If couture shouldnt be in the top 10....does that mean fedor shouldnt either? fedor fought twice last year against people that arent top 10....but we all know fedor can make most fighters look foolish in the cage/ring. (even though we havent seen him in a cage yet). if you say fedor isnt top 10 most(if not, all) will laugh at you.....but couture has beat 2 top 10's in a little over a year and hes not good enough for top 10.......go figure!

Dbag...I really don't know why I even bother with you. Couture was in the public eye as a commentator but no one considered him one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world. that's why he was such a huge underdog to Sylvia...make sense?

After the win against Sylvia, everyone began talking about a potential Couture-Fedor (at that time it was still Couture-Cro Cop) fight. So, it's pretty clear to see which act made people fall in love with Randy as a fighter again. I maintain it was the win over Sylvia. You argue it's his tv work. Well played.

I'm not going to even address your point about rematches because it's ignorant.

Couture has defeated two top 10s in the past year? Who?! Has he been fighting in basements? He certainly hasn't defeated two top 10s in the pound-for-pound rankings,which is what this is all about.

Does not matter when Yahoo started doing rankings because you have to look at the pool that's doing the voting. Those are the credentials you have to look at, not the Yahoo! name.

You're telling me that his career doesn't matter when ranking him as top ten or not? Especially when he's beat a whos who list of fighters. Including two top tens in the last year. And just because you don't consider Gonzaga top 10 at the time of his fight with Couture, that doesn't mean the LEGITIMATE mma world didn't. And beating CroCop put him there. Like it or not, victories define rankings, not personal preference.

And Sylvia is still ranked top ten after losing to Couture and Nog. So, discounting that victory is laughable. And the best part is that he didn't just beat them but he DESTROYED them.

Go write about basketball or something, because you're shaming yourself on the topic of this sport.

I persoanaly dislike Randy in alot of ways I thinks a crybaby for going out fo the UFC to cry about wanting to fight Fedor. His got great fighters in that division.
Cheick Kongo
Frank Mir
Minotauro Nogueira
Heath Herring
Brock Lesnar
after you beat a few of them then talk Fedor.
But your wrong on the last part. Fedor has already beat Minotauro three times now and loss twice and had a no contest. Wanderlei and Quinton has also already happened and Quinton lost by KO both times. I do not want to see GSP get fat and move up to Middleweight to fight one of the best in the world right now that would just be dumb he should stay in WW and fight Sanchez or Fitch like he is doing. BJ Penn should also stay in his division tons of good fighters in there
Tyson Griffin
Kenny Florian
Joe Lauzon
Nate Diaz
Roger Huerta
Mac Danzig
Clay Guida

"Couture has defeated two top 10s in the past year? Who?! Has he been fighting in basements? He certainly hasn't defeated two top 10s in the pound-for-pound rankings,which is what this is all about."

You should quit reporting on MMA for that statement. He beat Tim Sylvia on 3/3/2007 and beat Gabrial Gonzaga on 8/25/2007. BOTH top 10....now finish your other foot.

What it comes down to is, your back pedaling on what YOU WROTE. "he put him in the lime light" you didnt say as a fighter but now your trying to argue thats what you really said. It wasnt after the sylvia fight that launched him into the "lime light" as you say....but rather....he beat 2 much bigger opponents and made it look easy. David and Goliath anyone? why is David and Goliath still brought up? Because he beat a much bigger opponent...seeing a pattern here?

"he hasnt beat anyone in the p4p category in my super special Yahoo! rankings"

to even consider those is very laughable. if you are looking at the Yahoo! top 10, 6 of the top 10 arent even in his weight class (henderson is fighting at middleweight right now) the other 2 are contracted with the UFC. who does that leave? well since he cant fight himself....that leaves fedor on Yahoo! top 10. go ahead...keep chewing on that foot of yours. enjoy leather....

if youd like, i can draw it out on a big piece of paper with crayons so you can understand....just let me know and i'll get my crayola's out.

stop writing for MMA.....your embarrassing yourself.

PS: I'll be waiting for more excuses and implications from your side.

Geeze, I think all of you all are being a little too harsh here, Randy Couture is overrated.

He is 16-8, not the best record in all of MMA land.

He has defeated Tito Ortiz in his prime. Chuck Liddell in the beginning of his prime, Pedro Rizzo Twice, Vitor Belfort Once (I dont consider the UFC 49 and after Vitor Belfort) and Tim Sylvia, all of those fighters were great at the time, yes, but Randy Couture right now by the media is very overrated. Yes, he defeated Tim Sylvia and Napao, but is Napao even that good of a fighter? He has fought 3 top fighters, and he is 1-2 against them, a lot of people are still acting like he is a top 10 heavyweight fighter in the world, just because of his demolishing of the awful ufc Cro Cop. What this article is saying is that everybody acts like Couture is the best p4p fighter in the land, when he is not. Anderson Silva, GSP, Fedor, BJ Penn and even Lyoto Machida are better fighters than Randy Couture. Randy Couture in my eyes is not even a top 3 heavyweight fighter. I think those honors belong to Barnett (who defeated Randy) Nogueria and Fedor. Couture is a good fighter, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he is a top 5 pound for pound fighter, I dont think he is a top 3 heavyweight fighter

WOW! I see we have been bombarded by Randy Courture's fan club here. He is one of the greatest of all time but still not in the top ten pound for pound. I'm pretty sure that was the point of the article. As for Gonzoga he was taking it to Cro Cop when he knocked him out so I don't consider that win lucky, but I do think the Couture fight might have gone differently if Gonzaga wasn't choking on his own blood. I make that point because it was his own knee that caused that his broken nose not Couture's. Couture is still a good heavy weight just not in the top ten pound for pound. By the way do we all need an explanation of "pound for pound".

JDog,

Four of the five fighters you mention don't deserve a shot at Randy or the title.

Cheick Kongo: A good fighter, nowhere near great.

Frank Mir: A very good fighter who hasn't really beaten too many other very good fighters.

Minotauro Nogueira: A great fighter

Heath Herring: A decent fighter, calling him good is debatable, calling him great is laughable.

Brock Lesnar: A sideshow whose had two MMA fights and lost in one round to Mir. Great? are you serious? Good? he's shown nothing yet that makes me think he's good. Big? strong? sure, so what?

dude, the reason why everyone disagrees with you is because you're just wrong.

"intelligent rankings"??? sylvia IS one of the top fighters in the game. (i hate his fights though.) plus fedor v couture is one of the bigger fights right now--one of the ufc's best HWs versus pride's best hw.

there are a bunch of great fights to be made right now. anyone can name several fights everyone wants to see. Though there are several wrong answers to the question, what's the best match up out there? there are also several right ones. fedor v couture is one of them.